San Diego 500 Frequently Asked Questions

GENERAL

My son's car was judged to be too long during the car check-in process. We had to sand off the front of the car to make it seven inches long. How can this be since we build the car right from the kit?

Many of the basic blocks of wood that are included in the kits are over the legal length of seven inches. It is the responsibility of the Cub Scout (with the parent's help) to make sure the car does not exceed the maximum dimensions. This is the second most common problem. Over-weight cars is the most common.

The Scout Shop sells more than one pinewood derby kit. Can we mix parts from different kits?

Yes, racers can use any of the kits and also intermix the parts from those kits as long as they are all BSA Grand Prix series kits. Pinecar brand and other non-BSA wheels and axles can not be used in San Diego 500 entries.

We don't have a lot of fancy tools, does my son really have a chance to win his race?

We have seen winning pack cars come to the SD 500 that have barely been painted or shaped. The winning cars are not always the best looking car. Pay attention to his wheels/axles, lubrication and especially weight.

How are the winners determined?

The racers are all entered into a computer database along with the other Cub Scouts from their district. Initially each racer is, at random, grouped with up to 7 other racers for their first race. After all have raced once the second round is begun. The second round starts with all first-place finishers from the first round, then second-place finishers and so on. The electronic race chart will start eliminating racers only after cars loose twice. This generally means that a car has finished less than third two times. Every car will run at least twice and you can finish last in your first race and still be the overall winner. It is not possible to run long, exhaustive races with the volume of cars, racers and districts at the SD500.

My son lost one of his axles. Where can I get replacements?

Replacements for broken wheels, bent and lost axles are available at the scout shop as a wheel and axle kit

Why is the SD 500 so strict with rules?

We are strict because we try to make the race fair to all boys. If all the participants don't all follow the same rules then someone has an unfair advantage.

When or how often does the San Diego 500 run?

The San Diego 500 is held once a year at the San Diego-Imperial County Council Scout Fair. This year its being held at Qualcomm stadium in the Southeast corner of the parking lot.

Where do the cars and racers come from that will be racing at the San Diego 500?

Pinewood Derby racers from all over the council will be representing their packs from San Diego and Imperial counties.

What if there is a schedule conflict for the day of the race and my son can't be there to race his car?

In case of illness or scheduling conflicts you or your Pack must decide if another uniformed Cub will race your son's car for him or if they want the Pack to send the second place finisher to the '500'. It is not our decision to make but you and your Pack's. The Pack representative must race at the assigned time for your district. Rescheduling is not possible. Please advise the SD500 committee of any changes in the pack representative.

Do we have to use the tracing templates that they sell at the Scout store to determine the shape of the car?

No, you do not. They serve just as guides for the first-timers and those that need a little help to establish a neat car profile. You might want to try making your own.

How much work can I, as a parent, do on my son's car:

This is the question in pinewood derby racing! The simple answer is "Only as much as necessary." It is best for your son if he is allowed to do most of the work on his car. Encourage him, teach him, guide him but by all means let him do the majority of the work. Let him be able to say "yes, I built my car". It is very obvious when an adult has done too much work on the car. The youth and parents lose the respect of their peers.

Are Tiger Cubs allowed to race in the San Diego 500?

Yes, they are registered members of the Pack and if they win the pack competition they have the right to race. We have had many Tiger Cubs race in past years.

My son won this years Pack race as a Webelos Scout but has since crossed over to Boy Scouts. Can he Race?

Yes he may but he must wear his Cub Scout uniform as this is a Cub Scout event.

The wood supplied in the pinewood derby kits are often slightly longer than the seven inch maximum permitted. Check the length, and correct it before shaping the car. In a recent test 22 car blocks out of a case of 48 were too long. The final length is the responsibility of the builder!

How much can a car weigh?

A car can weigh up to 5 oz. No more. The San Diego 500 staff will weigh the cars on a precision scale that has been calibrated to within 1/10,000 of an ounce accuracy (really) to insure accuracy and avoid arguments.

Can we use kits from other sources than the Scouts?

You must use an official BSA "Grand Prix Derby Kit". The "nail" type axles and BSA wheels must be used. You may use whatever portion of the wood as is necessary for your design. Remember to follow all the rules for weight, length, width, height, wheels and axles or it may be disqualified. Only the "trim" portions of non-BSA kits are permitted. The inspection officials are very quick to detect illegal and non-BSA wheels and axles. Precut wood car bodies from either BSA sources or other three-party suppliers may be used in your car design.

Last year I saw a car that was only three (3) inches long! Is that legal?

Yes. The maximum length for a car is seven inches but there is no minimum length

They don't sell graphite at the Scout store anymore and the rules in the box says that's the only one that can be used. Can I use the new lubricant that they sell now?

Yes, we don't care what kind of lubricant you use as long as its not a wet lubricant like oil. The instruction sheets included in the kit may not reflect current products and procedures.

San Diego 500 race officials have no way of verifying when a car was made. However, we encourage Cubs to build a new car every year. This serves to promote good sportsmanship and re-enforces the parent-son relationship working together. It also eliminates a lot of hard feelings at the Pack race.

Why can't we use other (non-BSA) wheels and axles?

No, you may have an unfair advantage over other cars if different wheels/axles are used, if everyone uses the same then every racer has a fair chance. Some third-party wheels and axles have been machined to produce lighter, low surface contact parts that would be beyond the capability of the Cub Scout to produce at home.

Can we use wheel covers on our wheels?

Yes, you may use the round adhesive stickers for hub caps but realize the San Diego 500 inspection team must be able remove one or more of the stickers to verify that only official axles have been used on the car. You may replace the removed stickers at the inspection station with new stickers. However, you will find that they maynot stick to the newer wheels because of the hub design.

Do we have to use the original axles slots for the axles?

No, you can locate the axles anywhere you want on the side of the car. Make sure they meet the specifications for car width, length and clearance.

My son's wheels were allowed to race at the Pack race and he won, yet when he got to the SD 500 they disqualified his wheels and then with new replacements he lost his race.

Sometime Packs do not enforce the same rules that we do at the SD 500. Once again, we try to make the race fair to all by ensuring that all racers use the same wheels. We are sorry that your son lost his race however a copy of the rules are sent out before the race so that any discrepancies can be corrected before the race day. Encourage your pack to standardize the rules at the Pack race.

Can we sand or file the wheels?

Yes, there are rules to permit you to remove any mold marks from the wheels. However, any reshaping of the wheels will cause the car to be disqualified.

Why can't my son use lathe-turned wheels?

Few nine-year Cub Scouts can operate a lathe or even know what it is for that matter. This level of modification is well beyond the capabilities of these scouts and is not considered a standard home operation that everyone could use. The mail-order and store-bought varieties are not permitted either.

Can my son add decoration to his car, such as a plastic Super-Hero character?

Your son may decorate his car with anything he would like to put on it, however the car must still meet the car size and weight specifications. Also make sure that any decoration is glued on before the car is weighed and insure that decorations won't come off while racing.

What sort of weight can I use to bring the car up to 5 oz.?

Zinc weights are sold at the Scout shop but you can also use coins, washer, fishing weights, lead weights that are used to balance tires on cars and even BB's. We don't care as long as they are properly secured to the car and will not come off during the race. We highly recommend that most of the weight be in a hollowed-out portion of the car. A small amount of external "trim weight" can be added or removed on race day to achieve an exact 5.0 ounce car weight.

My son's car weighed 5 oz at his pack race but we were told that it was too heavy for the SD 500.

Organizations use many kinds of scales, some of which aren't too accurate. Spring-type diet scales and inexpensive postal scales are not accurate enough for weighing cars. Since the scales weigh differently the results will vary. The SD500 inspection staff uses a very accurate digital scale (0,00001 oz.) on which all cars are weighed on the day of the race. This once again insures that all cars are treated equally.

Where can I get my car weighed?

The post office will generally weigh cars for you. Their scale might not be quite as accurate as the one we use but it will get you fairly close. It is best to leave the weight just less than 5.00 ounces then add  extra trim weight as necessary.

What happens if my son's car too heavy, too long or has some other problem?

No car is just turned away. There is a work table equipped with basic hand tools and an electric drill where the car may worked to bring it into compliance for re-testing.

What would happen if my son's car is disqualified for a problem with the wheels?

The check-in table stocks extra wheels and axles that they will sell for the same price as the Scout shop. This way the racer can still run his car in the big race.

Can a Pack send two (or more) racers to the SD500 (or one from each Den)?

No, while we wish could race everyone we are pushed to race one winner per pack on the day of the race. If we make an exception for one pack we would have to make it for all and then it would be a 3 day event instead of a 8 hour event.

Will a racer be allowed to lubricate his car during the race?

No, a racer may lubricate his car just prior to turning it in at check in. If he is caught lubricating his car during the race he will be immediately disqualified.

What about lubricating his car before the council race if he wins the district race?

Lubrication before the council race will be allowed by the Cub Scout only, no parents will help and it will be done only before this one race and will not be allowed after the race has started, once again if he does he will be disqualified.

What happens if my son is late for his race? Can he run later in the day?

Your son is scheduled to race with rest of his district. He cannot compete outside of his own district and can race only at the specified time. Late racers lose their chance to race, sorry.

The Cubmaster has impounded my son's car after the pack race for the SD500. Can he deliver it to the SD500 site for us?

We highly recommend that the car be left in the possession of the racer. Too many times the car or Cubmaster couldn't be found on race day. The Cubmaster had a lot of explaining to do to a very sad Cub and very agitated parents.

Are there fast or slow lanes on the San Diego 500 track?

While every effort is made to prevent lane bias no two track lanes can be same. The track being used has an aluminum running surface and integral lane guide. The track is extremely fast and fair But... who knows what mysterious forces act upon the cars?

My pack leaders forgot to enter my son's car in the San Diego 500. Since he was the pack's fastest he race anyway?

The Cubmaster is responsible for submitting the Pack's representative name and address to the council headquarters office by the deadline, two weeks prior to the Scout Fair. There is a limited number of openings for each district. Late entries can be submitted to the council office by the Cubmaster but they will go into a standby list to be considered as space is available.

What can my son win at the San Diego 500?

Everyone is a winner at the San Diego 500 by recognition alone.  In addition, all the racers will get a personalized Pack Championship certificate and participation ribbon as well as a chance at one of three trophies at the district level races and three more at the council-level race.

What kind of cars win the races?

The fastest cars at the end of the day are often low-profile cars that run straight without often hitting the lane guide.

The council offices must have lost the registration for my son. The Cubmaster says he sent it in weeks ago. Why haven't we received our information packet yet?

The check is in the mail and the dog ate my homework! The truth is that the council is very careful in handling their paperwork and usually one of three things have happened:

a. The data on the form so unreadable that nothing could be done with it. or

b. The pack number, address, or name wasn't present on the form. or

c. The form mysteriously vanished from the mailbox the instant Cubmaster mailed it.

Is there a state or national level race for pinewood derby cars?

No, not yet. In fact most areas don't have anything even at this (council) level. There was a National event in 2003 celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the first Pinewood Derby.

Can my son's car be a "low-rider" type car?

Your son's car may take any shape or style that he prefers as long as it meets the car specifications. The main problem with a low-rider style is the chassis clearance. The car must maintain 3/8" (.375") inches from the rolling surface (bottom of wheel) to the lowest part the car body. This provides the clearance for the lane guide that projects up from the track between the wheels.

Why shouldn't my son have the weight on the bottom of the car?

Too often the weight is added to the bottom of the car without regard to the lane guide. The lane guide is 1/4" high and may interfere the car's ability to roll when the start gate is released. If weight is installed on the bottom side of the car carve or bore a recess for the weight so that it doesn't protrude. This problem isn't apparent until it's on the track. Another problem arises when the car comes to the skip ramp stop device. An uneven car bottom may allow the car to roll off the ramp.

Why is check-in line so long at the SD500?

Each Cub Scout and his car is individually checked-in, given a car tag. Then every car's physical features like size, weight, wheels must be checked and verified. While this procedure can be fairly quick some racers show up without their paperwork, don't know their pack number (or District name) or their car weighs in at 6 or 7 ounces and they make many trips back and forth to the work table. (It happens every year) Please do your part by being ready.

Can we have practice races?

The track is in use all day during the Scout Fair and there is little time for practice races. It might also be considered unfair to other racers that didn't get the same chance.

I saw someone lubricating their car during the race last year and you didn't do anything.

Over the years, a few Cubs have been caught cheating and were ejected from the race. If the audience sees a racer doing something questionable it should be pointed out to a race official wearing the checkered racing vests. IT WILL BE DEALT WITH. However, it is not so easy after the fact. We must catch the racer in violation.

What happens if my son drops and breaks his car during the race?

Car repairs may be attempted if they can be fixed within a couple of minutes. Hot-melt glue and common hand tools are available at the work table. If loose material falls off the car it cannot be reattached.

"Grumble, Grumble.... I think the council races could be run much better than they are now. Grumble, Grumble, Grumble...... I'll bet I could do a better job. "

The San Diego 500 is organized and run as an all-volunteer operation and  new volunteers are eagerly welcomed. The track, computers, controllers, and associated equipment costs thousands of (personal) dollars to procure and build while hundreds of hours are required every year to organize this race. We are always happy to listen to new ideas and of course to respond to complaints. We have been looking for our replacements for years. How about you?